Tue 6 May 2008
On Saturday, my little brother (age 15) and I went to the EB Games near his house. While there I saw an inexpensive second-hand copy of Bioshock and proceeded to the cash register to pay. I was refused.
You read right, the teller behind the cash register refused to sell me the copy because I was with a minor who was not my child. He said I couldn’t prove that I wasn’t buying the game for my brother. If he were my son, then they would explain what the rating system was and let me decide, but since he was just my brother I couldn’t buy anything rated Mature.
Obviously, this ticked me off because I really was buying it for myself. Sure, he was probably going to play it once I was done, but my mother wouldn’t have minded. I know that. Hell, he watches movies with worse content than Bioshock probably has on a weekly basis!
I had stormed out of the store in utter confusion and disbelief, but when I let my rage subside, I realized that this wasn’t such a bad thing after all. Maybe if more stores had this policy the media would give M rated games a break! Well eventually I’m sure they will have to one way or another. Either they’ll be tired of beating the same old dog or their audience will be. Especially since, in a couple of years, most of their audience would have grown-up with video-games and see them for what they truly are: Interactive Entertainment. A co-worker also told me that liquor stores have the same policy for people who walk in with minors so it’s not totally unprecedented.
What this boils down to is that I was initially peeved at being turned down and sent home, but now that I’ve had the time to cool down and collect my thoughts, I see it as a positive move on the part of EB Games and I commend them for making it!
May 6th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
There’s a big difference between a liquor store and a game store though that needs to be mentioned. Selling alcohol to a minor is illegal, just as buying alcohol and providing it to a minor is. Selling a mature rated game to a minor is not illegal nor is buying it for a minor. The ratings are not a legal regulation. They are an industry enforced standard.
If a store turned me down for a product that I wanted to buy and told me that I was buying it for a minor, I would never use that store again.
May 6th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Why do you commend them? It was for you not him. All it means is that people have to leave minors outside the store when they go in to buy games. That’s not a good thing for EB Games to be promoting. Imagine what’ll happen if one of these kids who’s forced to stay outside walks off or worse.
What happened to letting people make their own decisions about entertainment? EB Games is there to sell games and make money within the law. It is absolutely not their role to moralise to people and impose extra conditions on who can and cannot buy games.
May 6th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
I’m not sure about the legality or not of selling M rated stuff to minors Alymon. However to is plain stupid. Just walk out, ask your brother to stay out and go back.
May 6th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
I know that it’s not against the law in the US, (dunno about Canada) but over here in limeyland; selling a game to anyone who is below the age the game is rated for (15 or 18, clearly marked on the packaging) is a criminal offence and carries a maximum fine of £10,000 for the individual salesperson involved and another fine for the company. I used to work at Game (UK version of EB, used to be the same company in fact)and if I had a pound for every time I told obviously underaged patrons that they could have their copy of Vice City if they paid me £10,039.99 for it I’d have enough for a fairly decent gaming PC. Selling to an adult who you know is going to give that game to a minor is not a criminal offence though which is how it should be.
May 6th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
While I suppose there’s something to be admired in a store self-limiting their customer base over some ill-conceived moral responsability, what both infuriates and deeply concerns me about your incident brother, is that they refused to sell it to you because you couldn’t prove the game wasn’t for you. This of course, is clearly against one of our key legal concept, “In dubio pro reo”‘; the presumption of innocence. The reasons why the burden of proof lies with the accused in our system are many, but none so more intuitive than the simple idea that we did not want the innocent to suffer, be treated unfairly, or be deprived of liberties while deliberations were made by the court over the interpretation and application of legislation. The fact that this store has somehow decided to bypass our charter of rights and force its political view on us would be troubling enough if there was some legal basis for it, which there’s not, but what’s really scary is that this is an emerging corporation applying a policy that resembles thoughtcrime. No one can know your intention to give the game to the minor, and it is our legal requirement to presume that you won’t. The day we let corporations apply their private policies as if they were enacted legislation, no matter how small or even benificary the policy, is the day we start the slippery slope toward the Gibsonian world of Neuromancer, where corporations are the sole legal entities of any relevance.
May 6th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
o.k first off i work in retail. so if i were to sell a m rated game to a minor then i could lose my job. and if the rating spys see this yes there do have spys. the store could get finded. so all of you minors quite your complining and wait til your 17. its not the end of the world if you dont get the newest gta or halo game.
May 6th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
I remember the day I was denied purchase of a cigarette pack because my friend didn’t have ID and the man at the gas station thought he looked too young. I was 31, he was 28.
I guess too much caution can be annoying, but I’d rather have this than a categorical ban on Mature/AO-rated videogames.
To be honest, people should be more concerned that a large group of middleschool/highschool students chose to skip school the day GTA4 was released, but I guess I should digress. =)
May 6th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
I work at ebgames/gamestop. We have to card everyone doesn’t matter how old you are, we need that id. If you don’t like it don’t shop with us. By now were used to being screamed at . Its either sell you this M rated game that takes you 2 seconds to show an id for or we get fired cause esrb sends ppl in not to mention secret shoppers check for that now. Most customers now are a lot more into then they used to but there are that random few that give me a hard time still but personally i really dont give a dam anymore about hearing oh i left my id in the car. go get it.
May 6th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Alymon Says:
“If a store turned me down for a product that I wanted to buy and told me that I was buying it for a minor, I would never use that store again.”
You are what is considered an acceptable loss. They don’t want your business because the consequences of you providing an M game to a minor is worse than your monetary loss. I know this because I work for a company that enforces these rules.
It’s your attitude that gets companies in trouble to begin with.
Thom Says: “It is absolutely not their role to moralise to people and impose extra conditions on who can and cannot buy games.”
Ethics. It’s every American business’s role to have good ethics.
mahervieux forgot to mention that it is also the right of every business to refuse service to any customer. They are not required to sell anything to anyone, as long as there are no discrimination violations (race, gender, sexual preference etc.)
I agree with Orakga. People are more concerned a person was denied than a kid was knowingly breaking the rules for GTA IV.
May 6th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Everyone seems to be missing the point here. The person perchasing the game was not a minor. Who he was with was. So there was no reason to not sell him the game. No legal reason. If the buyer states the game is for him and pays for the game, even if an ESRB “spy” or whatever knew, it doesnt matter, you just sold an M rated game to someone that meets the age criteria. Thats like refusing to sell a car to someone for fear they will speed in it. As “mahervieux” stated, as americans we dont have to prove that we are obeying the law. Enforment has to prove we broke it. So how can the store sell the M rated games at all, anyone could turn around and give it to a minor. I think this was wrong of the retail store.
May 6th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
@ Anon poster #9:
Age is considered a protected class, they discriminated because he was not a minor but not old enough to be the minors guardian.
May 6th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Get a clue people, ALL stores have the right to refuse service to ANYONE for ANY reason. They made a judgement call, and its the customers judgement to ever go there again.
Also, refunds are NOT a law, stores dont have to take back your junk EVER. Get over yourselves, your not that important.
May 6th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
thats just stupid, cos i’m sure your still going to buy the game and hence your brother is still gonna play the game. Therefore we’re still in the same boat. and sucked in you didn’t get to play bioshock
May 7th, 2008 at 12:55 am
In rebuke to two previous posters (anonymous and UGHHH), they pointed out that it’s the right of every business to refuse service to any customer, and interestingly enough, that is simply not true. Now let’s get past the obvious immediately, as anonymous pointed out, despite their maxim, businesses are not allowed to discriminate against race, sex, color, religion, natural origin, disability, political affiliation, sexual orientation, or any other legally protected classes, but it doesn’t stop there. Businesses are legally prohibited from refusing services on the basis of arbitrary conditions, such as for example, eccentric dress styles, employment(police officers, military personnel), or dislike of one’s facial features. In fact, you’ll have difficulty finding legal cases (and there are several) where service was refused on the basis of anything else but safety, welfare, and well-being of other patrons, and were the courts sided with the business owners. Hygiene is an interesting exception to my previous statement, but fairly irrelevant to the discussion. In this case, service was refused on the basis that the customer couldn’t prove he was not going to give the game to the minor. This is arbitrary, in the sense that the policy prejudges the intention of the customer, which is unsound, and also arbitrary in the sense that the corporation has taken it upon itself to interpret the industry guidelines and enact them as laws. The bottom line though, is not that we couldn’t have a serious legal argument about EB Games right to refuse service to adults accompanied by minors, it is that that argument belongs to the legislation, not to some corporate board room or the “judgment call” of sixteen year old clerk. We would be morally remiss to allow corporations any room to enact policies that do not reflect the current spirit of the law.
May 7th, 2008 at 1:09 am
nice, good on eb games!
the only people who will complain about this are under 15 anyway!
May 7th, 2008 at 2:02 am
I think this is a good and bad thing. if it was you paying fine they should have let you buy the game but if it was your brother then they should have denied him buying it. its good to see someone taking into account the rating but they may want to look at how they proceed to give it to customers.
May 7th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
lol
May 7th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
It’s not the stores responsibility to to make sure every mature rated game they sell is not played by a minor but their responsiblity they every game they sell is not SOLD to a minor. It is every adult indivduals responsibilty that any mature related material whether it be alcohol, videogames, porn, movies, whatever not be put in the hands of minors. The clerk was wrong and should have sold the game to the older brother because he is an adult. Also the older brother is wrong in the notion that after he finishes the game that he going to let his little bro play it.
May 7th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
funny you should post this, right after last xmas, i was in an ebgames with my brother 15 at the time, and he wanted to buy some game that was rated M, they asked for ID and refused him the sale, so as i was standing right there, my brother gave me the game and the cash and i purchased the game for him, all this happened right infront of the clerk. basically the exact opposite of what you just described.
May 7th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
The same thing happened to me at EB when i went to buy Farcry, I was 17 at the time but i didnt have my i.d. and i was with a friend who looked even older than me and he still wouldnt sell me the game
May 7th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Awesome. Anyone who disagrees with this is either A)under 17 or B)a negligent parent or relative.
There is a line that the government has placed to protect children, a line that parents should be putting down themselves. Its also a line that many people are obviously ignoring and the effects are obvious.
If you dont believe me go play COD4 or GTA4 and see how many times you encounter some kid who calls you a fa^&ot ni%&er, just cause hes online and can get away with it.
May 7th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
I am an employee of GameStop/EBGames. In fact I am a manager of one of the stores. Too many people are not aware of how close our government is to regulating the sale of games just like alcohol. Our policies currently state that if we believe that a person is purchasing a “M” rated title for a minor and cannot prove that they are the minor’s parent or legal guardian then we may refuse the sale. If we do sell the game regardless of how old the purchaser is and that person gives it to a minor, said minor’s parents get all pissed off and run back to the store or our home offices we get fired. If the government regulates the sale of “M” rated games then not only do we get fired, we get fined or tossed in jail. The point has not been missed at all in fact it needs to be elaborated even more, that “clerk” couldn’t tell if that was his brother or someone the kid “shoulder tapped” out on the street on in the mall to get him the game. There is no surpassing the law here or discrimination, just a so called “clerk” at the very least protecting his job and at most ensuring that a kid he doesn’t know is not exposed to potentially harmful content.
May 7th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Actually, in some states it is illegal. It would vary from state to state, but I know for a fact that in Illinois that selling or buying an M rated game for minor lends to a misdemeanor and up to $5,000 FINE. Read http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/94/HB/09400HB4023.htm for the full description. So, not only can the guy buying for “himself and brother later” (love the way he tried to get around that) the clerk could be fined that much. There’s nothing wrong with protecting younger kids from getting this content, and I can understand the anger in being refused. Go back later and get it, have the clerk hold it for pete’s sake. Everybody wants to bitch cuz they don’t get their way these days, they don’t take time to think this actually effects more than them and overall this is done for protection.
May 7th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
I’ve seen this happen in person with God of War 2 at EB. The EB clerk acted like some kind of overlord with sooo much power over his customer.
I’d love to see an angry customer’s reaction when a busy EB clerk mistakenly thinks the kid in line behind the customer is with him and gives the customer attitude refusing to sell the customer the game because the clerk claims that he doesn’t know that he’s not buying the game for the kid he’s “with”.
I mean how will this stop boolegging video games? People usually learn so if this happens once, next time the kid doesn’t come up to the till. In light of this I see it as completely ineffective.
So it’s ineffective and runs the risk of angering a customer. Wow, I’d venture to say the head office idiot that came up with this has never worked in an EB store and is not a customer of EB.
The bottom line is that the buyer was of age. What a stupid policy. Granted I wouldn’t want a kid to play GTA IV, but this isn’t he way to stop it.
June 8th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
I can not agree with you in 100% regarding some thoughts, but you got good point of view…
August 31st, 2008 at 6:29 pm
As gamers we love to hate on EB Games, but admit it, we get a total kick out of walking into a store with so many games all in one place!